Tuesday, November 1. 2005The Left Has Lost Their Mind on AlitoComments
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You said:"by getting married you both give up that privacy right in favor of a shared responsibility to each other in matters of procreation."Huh? Says who? I don't remember that vow. Cmon, that is silly....you are just makin' that up aren't you?
#1
Anonymous
on
2005-11-02 16:00
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OH THANKS A LOT!I took your advice and I tried to get a vasectomy without my wife's consent, AND IT HURTS LIKE HELL!You do not need your wife's consent to get a vasectomy. I know...my wife did not need to consent to mine.But, if you don't believe me perhaps you will believe Aetna Insurance Company:"...a husband does not need his wife's consent to have this surgery, it is appropriate for him to discuss his vasectomy with her beforehand." http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/9339/20759.htmlOr Planned Parenthood:"You are not required to have the consent of your wife or partner..."http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/birthcontrol/pub-contraception-vasectomy.xmlAlthough several other bogger's have claimed that their state requires that the wife sign a consent form, NO STATE IN THE UNION REQUIRES THAT THE WIFE CONSENT TO A HUSBAND'S VASECTOMY.They are lying, Karl.
#2
Dan Mulligan
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on
2005-11-02 16:38
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Dan, I beg to differ.This blogger has actually gone and gotten a vasectomy, and I have personal experience in the matter.When I went in, I was asked for my marital status. I asked why it mattered. The response was that if I was married, I needed my wife's consent.When I challenged this, I was told that there is legal precedent allowing a wife to sue the doctor for destroying her ability to have children with her husband.Funny how there is no such precedent allowing a husband to sue the doctor who kills his unborn child!BTW, this was true in my former state of residence as well - I inquired some years ago there and was told the same thing.You may be correct that no state law requires it, but that doesn't mean that you don't need it - unless you intend to use your own scalpel and do the surgery yourself.As for it "hurting like hell", perhaps you needed a better urologist. Mine was a 10 minute painless procedure. Oh sure I was sore for a couple of days, but the 'script I was given for Hydrocodone (for pain) remains full in my medicine cabinet with not a single tablet consumed.The simple fact of the matter Dan is that the left in this country continues to abuse the claim of "reproductive freedom" and wave it around like a flag - but they're lying, as they support it for only half the population.Indeed, here in Florida, a woman can not only abort, she can have the kid and then anonymously walk into any firehouse in the state and hand over the kid, and by doing so is absolved from any parental responsibilities for that child. (Fl Stat. Title XXIX, Sec 383.50) There are similar laws in many other states.Just try that as a man - the government will forcibly assign those responsibilities, and if you resist, you can and will be thrown in jail.If the Left wants to be honest about this issue they are going to have to draw the line in the same place for both genders. If that line is not "keep it in your pants" for women, then it must not be for men. If it is "one second before birth", or, as is the case in Florida, 3 days after birth, then that line must be drawn in the same place for men.One of the key elements of marriage, as a social institution, is the protection of a man's right to raise and rear the children he sires. Indeed, that is the only means by which a man has ever been able to secure that right absent force, since men are incapable of gestation.By destroying this security and then twisting the phrase "reproductive freedom" the left has become a haven of bigots and sexists.If the Left is interested in winning elections, one way of doing so would be for them to demand and expend effort towards true gender equality when it comes to reproductive rights. (They might even convince me to switch allegiance that way....)The Left would then be able to take the mantle of claiming to protect children away from the Right, and wear it proudly.Should not the goal be that all children are born to willing parents; should not in all cases both parents, who are not proven unfit through their personal conduct without regard to their genital configuration, have their right to raise and nurture their offspring, and should not all children be able to freely enjoy on an equal basis the companionship and nurturing of both parents - again, absent proven misconduct?I say "yes", and the gender bigots on the Left who demand otherwise have always and will continue to draw my ire.
#3
Genesis
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on
2005-11-02 17:28
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This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
#4
Dan Mulligan
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2005-11-02 21:11
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BTW, the "hurting like hell" was a joke. It was no big deal for me, but I do know guys that were black and blue from one knee to the other.
#5
Dan Mulligan
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on
2005-11-02 21:14
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I have too Karl, my wife did NOT have to consent. That may have been the whim of your urologist, but it is NOT law.There is NO state in the US that requires a wife's consent to a vasectomy. You are not going to convince me that you know more about it that Planned Parenthood does. Just because some jackass jury ruled for the plaintiff in a civil suit doesn't mean that men don't have the right to get a vasectomy without their wife's permission. After all you can still buy hot coffee in restaurants, in spite of the stupid ruling against McDonalds, can't you?I will not disagree with you about parental rights. It is absolutely wrong that a woman would be allowed to give up a child for adoption without the consent of the fatherFathers have rights, but they don't have rights to fetuses.
#6
Dan Mulligan
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on
2005-11-02 21:20
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Where did you see me say in my original post that there was a LAW barring vasectomies without a wife's consent?C'mon Dan, don't try to put words in my mouth (or in my blog) that I never wrote. Read for content, not what you WANT to find there.I don't care what PP says, as they don't provide vasectomies. They do, however, provide abortions.It is not the whim of just "my" urologist. As I pointed out, I checked with several, across two states. There's a pattern here.....As for "Rights To Fetuses", there's a bit of a problem there too. The Lefties support laws such as the one in California where Scott Peterson was charged with two murders - yet if Laci wanted an abortion, she could have had one. Seems that whether its a murder depends on who's ordered the killing - that's wrong too. Either its a child, in which case its murder, or its not, in which case it may be assault on the mother (or murder of her), but it can't be murder of a non-existant person.Nevertheless, what the law in question provided was not that a man had a right to determine what happened to the fetus.It provided only that a husband must be notified before an abortion can be performed.No control or consent - just notification.Exactly what's the problem here? Marriage is a choice, and it comes with both rights and responsibilities. If the abortion went "bad", that husband would be legally responsible for the medical bills. Indeed, he's responsible even without it going bad! This is, once again, about one gender having choices and the other getting the bill and/or other consequences.Or was the real issue here - the dirty little secret behind the counter - that this law prevented a woman from getting away with adultery if she got pregnant while having an affair?Wanna take a bet on what the real problem the Lefties had with that ruling was Dan?(BTW, a husband in the same situation had no ability to escape, as he'd get hit for the child support - hardly able to be hidden from his wife.....)As I originally pointed out, the buzzphrase "reproductive freedom" is Left-speak for sexism and bigotry.If you're going to be a Leftist Dan, and you seem to wear the badge with honor, this little bit of blood is on your hands too.
#7
Genesis
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on
2005-11-02 21:36
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*rolling my eyes*None of that stuff is worth response.
#8
Dan Mulligan
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on
2005-11-02 22:48
(Reply)
I see you deleted my joke Karl. No sense of humor.
#9
Dan Mulligan
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on
2005-11-02 22:49
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It may be painful to face raw hypocrisy from the left, but its tough to argue against it. At least its tough if you'd like to have a reasonable chance of acquitting yourself reasonably well in that debate......As for jokes, this blog is about ideas - not people. As such attempts to play ad-hominen games, whether tongue-in-cheek or not, are off-topic and inappropriate, as I've noted before.
#10
Genesis
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on
2005-11-02 22:57
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This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
#11
Dan Mulligan
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2005-11-02 23:05
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Hypocrisy? Wrong again. I would agree with you that supporting both the double murder charge and abortion rights would be hypocrisy, but the Pro-choice crowd were OPPOSED to the double murder charge in the Scott Peterson case. That charge was concocted by the anti-choice right wingers as a ploy to obtain a ruling that destroying a fetus is murder...everyone knew that. It was a very transparent strategy.The National Organization of Women were opposed to it. http://www.dailyrecord.com/news/03/04/20/news3-laci.htmMarva Stark, president of the Morris County NOW chapter said, "If it was unborn, then I can’t see charging him with a double-murder."In fact the wackos at the traditional values coalition were very critical of the "lefties" opposition to the double murder charge: http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=878 Also, here you can see that the nutjobs at the Clare Boothe Luce Policy Institute also supported the double murder charge and attempted to paint the NOW stand in opposition to the double murder charge as "a way to promote their own pro-abortion agenda." http://www.cblpolicyinstitute.org/petersoncase.htm(no, It was a way for the radical right to promote their anti-choice agenda.)Now the rightwing radicals are using it like this: http://www.cwfa.org/articles/7031/LEGAL/life/
#12
Dan Mulligan
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on
2005-11-02 23:53
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Psst....California is the Leftmost State of the Union - and has been for a looong time.If they have a law on their books that allows one to be charged with the murder of a fetus, then what Leftie Lawmakers (and others on the Left) say and what they do are indeed two very different things.That is the very definition of hypocrisy..... thank you for underlining my point for me.With this straw man burned to ash, you may now proceed to explain how you - or anyone else - justifies a legal environment that imposes fiscal liability for both that wife's abortion and the costs for care, potentially for the rest of her life, should that procedure go bad on her husband, yet denies him even the right to knowledge that she is about to undergo it.That's the fundamental issue here Dan - and the folks using this issue to oppose Alito are unwilling to debate it in the public square.Fortunately for the American People, the media is starting to ask these questions.Good. Its about time that these issues were subject to honest public airing and debate.I predict that the Lefties will back away from opposing Alito as they are called on this, and the public comes to understand that their position is indefensible. In the last 48 hours I have seen two lefties skewered on national television over this exact point. I found it delicious, to be honest.Of course rather than living up to their stated position and actually supporting reproductive freedom for everyone, a laudable goal and one that would draw widespread support from men (who ARE, after all, roughly 50% of the population), it appears instead the left will engage in tawdry stunts on the floor of the Senate in an attempt to divert attention from the vacuous nature of their opposition to Judge Alito.It worked for yesterday, but today their sizzle turned out to be without steak......
#13
Genesis
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on
2005-11-03 00:13
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Psssstt....California has a republican governator, I think that disqualifies them as the most liberal state in the union. Clearly, you do not understand how the law works. Their lawmaker's don't have anything to do with charging Scott Peterson with a double homicide, their murder laws are no different with regard to that than any other state. The double homicide charge was dreamed up by conservatives that knew that they could use a guilty verdict to further their anti-choice agenda. Unfortunately they found a conservative judge that allowed them to get away with that ploy, and a jury that was so apalled that they convicted on both counts.But all of that was despite the objection of the "lefties." And now you are mimmicking the right wing media's big lies in an attempt to paint the pro-choice people are hypocrites. That is nonsense, they have held the same position all along, Scott Peterson should not have been charged with double homicide.Who were the lefties that you saw skewered anyway? Quite frankly I don't think that one decision that you are referring to is any more concern to those that oppose him than any other of his extremely radical decisions.
#14
Dan Mulligan
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on
2005-11-03 10:28
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I think its you who do not understand how the law works.The governor does not "pass" laws. They are introduced in the legislature, passed through both houses, and then either vetoed or signed by the governor.Who, by the way, was not republican when these laws were put on the books.A jury that was "so appalled?" Or was that a jury that wasn't quite so liberal - and a population that wasn't quite so liberal - as you'd like to believe?See, its easy to be a "liberal" so long as the consequences of your politics don't hit too close to home. But as soon as they do, suddenly, people aren't so liberal anymore.Its easy to argue in the abstract about how a woman should have the "absolute" right to choose.Until you're a man who has his unborn child - who you wanted to have and raise - killed without even the courtesy of notice before the fact.You might try citing a few of those "extremely radical decisions." I certainly don't see how notifying a husband that his unborn child is about to die is "radical" - especially when he's on the hook for her care, both financially and personally, if something goes wrong during the procedure, and indeed, can be held financially responsible for the cost of the abortion itself!A woman who doesn't want this "burden" is free not to marry, of course.... or to "keep it in her pants" - just as man is.Isn't this really about enabing a bigoted and sexist double standard?
#15
Genesis
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on
2005-11-03 11:01
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I never said that the governor passed laws. I said that the Governor is a Republican, and that kind of takes California out of the running for the title of most liberal.You seem to have an interest in politics. You might be interested in reading about them. You might learn that Massachusetts, and Vermont, and Conneticutt, and Minnesota are far more liberal than California.I meant that the jury was appalled (and rightly so) by the murder of Laci Peterson, and they wanted to punish him (rightly so) as much as possible. So they went along with the conservatives ploy of calling it a double murder (wrongly so.)As for them being "less liberal than I would like to believe," what the heck are you talking about? YOU are the one that called California the most liberal state in the union, (which is ridiculous)I said that they aren't all that liberal there.I didn't say anything about notifying the husband about his wife's intention to get an abortion as being radical. I have not defended nor attacked that decision at all. Are you deliberately pretending that you don't understand these things?
#16
Dan Mulligan
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2005-11-03 12:27
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Dan, if you're trying to run away from your former comments, then just renounce them and be done with it. There's nothing wrong with admitting that you didn't communicate very well, or that you were just baiting instead of having a debate on issues that you actually believe in.You said, in your last response..."Quite frankly I don't think that one decision that you are referring to is any more concern to those that oppose him than any other of his extremely radical decisions."A straight parsing of english includes this decision, among others, as "extremely radical", and it is your label - not mine.As for California and lefties, if you think that someone's political party defines them as right or left, you're mistaken.Arnie was elected because Gray Davis (D) had become known as "Grayout Davis." Arnie is WELL to the left of center by virtually any metric you wish to use.Indeed, we have seen over the last few years some pretty spectacular flameouts by Liberals in "high places". Davis and Landrieu are two of the most obvious..... contrast them with Gulianni after 9/11.....Its easy to be Liberal - until you have to cover the checks you wrote.That's really the debate here Dan - and I note that despite multiple attempts to engage you in it, you've declined.
#17
Genesis
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on
2005-11-03 14:58
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Stop trying spin my statements into something that they are not. I did not say that someone's party defines them as right or left. I said that having a republican governor takes them out of the running for the coveted "most liberal" title.So...lets just summarize shall we?You said that you must have your wife's consent to get a vasectomy.... you were wrong. (My wife did not need to consent to mine.)You said that the lefties supported the double murder charge against Scott Peterson... you were wrong., they opposed it.You said that California is the leftmost state in the union... you were wrong. (that's just silly, there are at least 5 other states that are far more liberal that I can immediately think of.)You said something about the population of California being not so liberal as i would like to believe.I am not sure what you were talking about it was almost incomprehensible...But you were wrong., they are more conservative than YOU seem to believe, not me. (remember you said that CA is the most liberal state in the union, and they aren't.)I think it is pretty funny to hear you talk about "lefties" flaming out when this republican adminstration is collapsing under it's own weight.And as far as writing big checks...the Republicans hold the record on that, having turned a budget surplus into a mind boggling deficit that our grandchildren will not even be able to pay back, (AND SELLING THAT DEBT TO THE CHINESE!)
#18
Dan Mulligan
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on
2005-11-03 15:32
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Wow. Genesis, you aren't even aware of how badly this guy is beating you are you?This reminds me of that FedEX commercial where the one guy is always wrong. Genesis, you don't get "French Benefits" either. They are fringe benefits.
#19
Inquartata
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on
2005-11-03 15:48
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Ok, one at a time Dan...1. "Someone's party defining them for left or right." You can't have this one both ways. Either the party a governor belongs to removes a state as being "most liberal" because that governor is a republican, thereby defining them as a righty, or it does not. If it does not, then there is no disqualification.2. "You must have your wife's consent to get a vas." I said it, and its true in many cases. YOU claimed that I said there was a LAW stating thus, but I never did. You never retracted that falsehood either, nor did you attempt to argue with the fact that many urologists (in fact, perhaps most) won't do it. Something doesn't have to be illegal to be unavailable. Planned Parenthood and NOW have a hissy fit whenever there is any form of interference with abortion availability anywhere - whether by law or any other means, and has been known to file suit, including RICO suits, over this sort of thing. How come they're not so vigilant when it comes to vasectomies?3. The lefties did and do support the double murder charge. California has and has had a lefty legislature; they write the laws under which prosecutors can charge. IF THEY TRULY BELIEVED WHAT THEY SAID, THEY WOULD HAVE EXCLUDED THIS POSSIBILITY YEARS AGO. In fact, they did not, and they still have not. The Left is not being honest about their claimed beliefs in this matter - they control a number of legislatures and governorships. WHERE ARE THE LAWS BANNING THIS PRACTICE IN THE WAKE OF PETERSON'S CONVICTION? They're MISSING, because the Lefties don't really believe what they say. I am unimpressed with words as politicians lie all the time to get (re)elected. Show me actions and statutes, not position papers and whines.4. California and its people are NOT conservative and they are the most liberal state in the union. One only need to look at the court decisions that come out of that state and the 9th Circuit, along with a whole host of other lefty trash such as CARB (wholly their invention) and laws forcing us to house, feed and school illegal immigrants.5. A republican administration collapsing under their own weight? Nice try. Bush has done in 5 years what 8 years of Clinton could not accomplish - make forward progress in the middle east (Palestine/Israel/Libya/Iraq), bringing a representative republican government to Afghanistan and Iraq, disarming Libya without firing a shot, and cleaning up Clinton's economic disaster built on fraud and artifice for the entirety of his 8 years in office.Oh, and finally, Clinton's government never ran a surplus - that's another Lefty Lie. He stole hundreds of billions from the Social Security Trust Fund to cook the books of the federal government and replaced those actual tax revenues with worthless IOUs that can never be repaid.As for the Chinese buying our debt, treasury auctions are public and open to all.As for debt not being able to be paid back, thank yourself for that, along with the rest of the lefties. The explosive growth of federal government and the left's continued lying about any slowing of the rate of federal spending as a "cut" has led to an environment where there is an inevitable default somewhere down the road. The only question is whether my daugher or HER kids are going to get screwed - it is no longer about "if", but "when".Bush and friends are certainly not the only ones to do this - Clinton was a willing participant, as was Carter. This particular bit of bull transcends political parties.Indeed, the unfunded liability of FICA and Medicare alone is in the neighborhood of forty-three trillion dollars. Clearly, these debts will not be paid. (See my blog at http://genesis3.blogspot.com/2005/03/coming-fiscal-meltdown-of-america.html for more info on this.) [Before you go off ranting that I disagree with you on something you might want to read the rest of the blog first!]Since you're into making false claims about people "selling things to the Chinese", here's a true fact about selling out our nation for you - from the 90s:Clinton approved several sales to the Chinese during his presidency. Among them was the technology necessasry to target their nuclear warheads much more accurately than previously possible. Indeed, they now can target accurately enough to hit our hardened military installations - something they had been trying to do for 20 years without success......Thanks Bill.Since this particular post was about the hypocrisy of the left on this issue, and it has been roundly hijacked instead of debated, despite repeated attempts to come back to the central point, it appears there's nothing to be gained by further comments on this entry....
#20
Genesis
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on
2005-11-03 18:05
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